Looks fast - misleading looks
MotorV8me.com clearly remembers its first drive in a Type R car, the Integra DC2R.
We remember the “snick, snick” of the sweet gearbox, keeping the engine singing in the top half of the rev range.
We also remember the disappointment of getting smoked from the lights by cars like the WRX and 200sx, and then the surprise of pulling them in once the road tightened and the corners arrived – the surprise of a naturally aspirated, front wheel drive car, utterly devoid of understeer and full of character and precision.
It was then that MotorV8me.com understood the Type R spirit – balance; handling; steering precision; sharp turn in; manic vtec (yo!) scream, throttle response and control; the sum of the parts being greater than the whole; and something more than just straight line heroics.
Looking into the rear view mirror and seeing the WRX wanting to understeer into a tree and the 200sx oversteering like it was driving on an oil slick, we realised the true meaning of the Type R badge. This was even more evident when the Integra pestered more fancied and powerful cars on the track.
A WANING SPIRIT
Over time, MotorV8me.com watched, saddened at the demise of the Type R spirit and Honda’s sports car DNA. The Prelude, Integra, CRX, NSX, S2000 – all culled from the Honda range and replaced by Toyota clones – boring and economical shopping carts.
The only car left to carry the Type R badge was the Civic R.
Knowing that the R philosophy was never about straight line speed, we didn’t flinch when we read the following on the Civic R in the February 2011 issue of Wheels magazine:
“The sound and fury doesn’t signify anything fast … it just aint that quick
If you’re not prepared for a max-commitment launch you’ll lose the traffic light Grand Prix to … anything automatic.
It needs more torque and less understeer”.
Sure, in a straight line, the Civic R was the slowest of the 11 hot hatches gathered (0-100 in 8.2 seconds, the quarter mile in 15.9 seconds, and among the slowest for in gear acceleration).
Sure, the low rev response is rubbish.
Sure, the hard ride and general lack of refinement is obvious.
Sure, it’s a flawed road car with a very narrow window of power and enjoyment.
Sure, oriental Honda fan bois buy them, put Mugen stickers on the side, fit neon lights underneath, and then go changing lanes underneath trucks in a most fast and furious manner before hitting the drive through at Bankstown Maccas.
However, all this would be excused and exonerated on the track and in the corners, right? Wrong!
ON THE WRONG TRACK
In the hands of an ex Formula BMW and Formula 3 racing driver, the Civic R, the current pinnacle of the R badge, was hammered by all and sundry on the track. Check out the lap times:
Renault Megane RS250 (184kW, 340nM, 1393kg, $46,990) – 60.7 seconds.
WRX (195kW, 343nM, 1410kg, $39,990) – 60.92 seconds.
Golf R (188kW, 330nM, 1476kg, $48,490) – 60.98 seconds.
Ford Focus RS (224kW, 440nM, 1492kg, $59,990) – 61.14 seconds.
Mini Cooper JCW (155kW, 280nM, 1130kg, $49,200) – 62.01 seconds.
VW Golf GTI (155kW, 280nM, 1380kg, $42,990) – 62.33 seconds.
Mazda3 MPS (190kW, 380nM, 1455kg, $41,915) – 62.40 seconds.
VW Polo GTI (132kW, 250nM, 1189kg, $27,790) – 62.41 seconds.
Renault Clio RS200 (148kW, 215nM, 1281kg, $39,140) – 62.47 seconds.
Citroen DS3 Dsport (115kW, 240nM, 1165kg, $35,990) – 62.80 seconds.
Civic R (148kW, 193nM, 1345kg, $39,990) – 63.40 seconds.
Stone cold, dead, motherless last!
MotorV8me.com couldn’t believe our eyes.
A car that asked for so many compromises on the road then had the nerve to offer no corresponding advantage or joy with its track performance.
A Type R car, flogged by a Citroen DS3 on the track?! What is this world coming to?!
A $40k Type R car, beaten by a $28k VW Polo on the track? The Polo was described as “quick, safe and fun … class leading ride and refinement”. A Polo, which is a much better and less compromised road car, is now also the faster track car?!
To add insult to injury, the Polo is more than 12 grand cheaper than the Civic! Hahaha
March 23rd, 2011 on 12:38 pm
are you guys idiots, have you driven one, ?
i personally own a type s all bolt ons and tune, it is by far slow.
slowest gear acceleration, all type R’s fun a 4.7 Fd and FN2R’s RUN 4.9. teh latest FD2R runs a 5.1 4.7 is even by far a slow gear ratio.acceleration is not determined only by its gear set.
i have personally, driven dc2r dc5r dc5s and fn2r, all with coils except the fn2r and it rockets through corners.
every manufacture has flaws in some models, you might actually appriciate the construction of them, at the end of teh day its not the fastest, but it is still one of the funnest cars i have driven with stock suspension
March 24th, 2011 on 11:23 pm
sounds like they have driven one
are they idiots? doubt it, since they can spell
March 24th, 2011 on 12:09 pm
haha true true, slow as sh*t, my kid’s bike causes more whiplash
March 24th, 2011 on 1:27 pm
@David – I think your missing the point.
They clearly say they drove the Civic (as well as the Integra Type R and how much they loved the Integra). They’re just sad that the Civic is a watered down Type R.
And comparing a car with “bolt ons and tune” is hardly valid bcos the car aint stock any more!
Sounds like you mostly driven hondas so you got the blinkers on. I reckon if you had a go in the Megane, you understand what fun really is. Unlke the Civic, its also fast, even without “bolt ons and tune” – lol!
March 31st, 2011 on 7:02 pm
That can be considered controversial but I enjoyed it non the less.
April 14th, 2011 on 2:50 pm
Some manufacturers just don’t create good times…. I enjoyed the writing non the less.
April 5th, 2011 on 7:03 am
Great post, I admire the writing style
A little off topic here but what theme are you using? Looks pretty cool.
April 7th, 2011 on 6:44 pm
Very cool, some good arguments! I appreciate you making this article online, the rest of the site is also high quality. Have a great day.
April 11th, 2011 on 9:53 pm
Great stuff, thanks.
April 14th, 2011 on 4:46 am
I love your posts, will come back later.
April 14th, 2011 on 2:46 pm
Had a go in the typer integra and had to have an r. However this one had close to 50g thrown its way and boosted close to 450kw… I’m not disappointed in my fn2 but I could invest in some running gear to get it right up there. For what you pay for the na engine and what it dose you cant complain.
April 25th, 2011 on 2:01 pm
notice all the cars that beat the civic round track have forced induction of some sort!
June 4th, 2011 on 5:32 pm
@civic-ep3r Really? What kind of forced induction does the RenaultSport Clio have?
Last time I looked under my bonnet it was a NA 2.0 16v engine in there.
Maybe the turbo fairies have been out and thrown one in there recently, I’ll go check…………….
no still the NA engine in there that embarrasses an FN2r
June 23rd, 2011 on 12:38 pm
Ive had a go with renault clio sport before , yea its up there with the FN2 , but embarrasses the fn2? Please
June 14th, 2011 on 11:31 pm
Type S = Type Slow??? Hey, my old Integra Type S had 2 more KWs than the Type R!!!
July 3rd, 2011 on 4:11 pm
Soichiro Honda:
First man, then machine
Dont blame the machine! nuf said!
(chuckle)
July 16th, 2011 on 9:33 pm
Well.. I disagree. Firstly, it seems you are comparing cars from the next generation to the Type R: Don’t forget the 2011 Type R is really just a 2008 with LSD.
Secondly, the Type R is fun to drive and while I didn’t believe it at first, it’s not about out and out speed.
See, the thing about the FN2R is that every time you drive it you get better at driving it. The non turbo engine matted to the gearbox is simply unforgiving. If you get a gear change slightly wrong you will end up seeing the rear of most cars. Get them right, however and you are on par with some pretty heavy hitters.
An example is the Golf MkV with DSG (I drive both the R and GTI regularly). While the Golf is (generally) much quicker it literally puts me to sleep. The fact is that a monkey could drive it quicker in a straight line. It’s that easy. Point the car in the right direction then hit the skinny pedal on the right. How is that fun?
In the Type R you need some skill to get the most out of it. In a straight line you need perfect gear changes. On a track you need that plus more.
If you put a racing driver in the cars you mentioned (even though they are generations apart) your results might be different. And while I know it’s all BS, the Stig in Top Gear’s racing magazine (who if his review is on the UP and UP (and I agree that this is questionable) is likely a racing driver. No wonder “he” rated it number one against all that crop of hot hatches.
Maybe I’m getting old but rather than out and out speed, I value the challenge of perfect gear changes, blipping the throttle through corners and listening to the engine sing at 8000+ RPM on s hill climb.
Anyway.
July 17th, 2011 on 9:07 am
Are you saying that the Type R is the only fun car on that list?
I’ve driven the Type R, the Mini and the Clio and they’re all fun cars in their own way.
Why settle for fun but slow when you can have fun and fast? Lol!
Oh, and they did put a racing driver in all the cars – a “Formula BMW and Formula 3 racing driver” in fact.
August 3rd, 2011 on 4:59 am
aaaaaaaaaahhh nevermind the crap! We still love Honda
and the type R
its way better! even if u push the car to its limits they work well!
Mine is really fun to drive and i win when i drag in the lights!
September 21st, 2011 on 2:05 pm
When the stig raced the Type R on their track, it still beat the Focus XR5/ST and the Golf GTI. So I think it obviously depends on who is driving the bloody thing. I have reviewed lap times on many sites and on many tracks, sometimes the Type R wins or is on par with the Focus, Golf, Clio, etc and sometimes it is faster. All depends on the driver.
I do have to agree that the more you drive the Type R, the better you understand it. And I know that this is the same with all cars, but I think its especially so with a VTEC and with this Type R. The Gear Ratio fits the car perfectly and like a previous writer said, when you understand it, it makes a huge difference.
SO my take on the FN2 Type R is a positive one. It is a very attractive, fun car to drive and when driven correctly can beat some of its main competitors.